To Pee or Not To Pee?

Ohio Outdoor News (Sept. 2007)  by Tony Seals

    There you are, perched in your favorite treestand, the forest coming to life before your eyes.  It’s show-time.  At any minute the buck of your dreams could come strolling into your set-up.  Just then, it hits you, that second cup of coffee is starting to kick-in.  What is the best way to handle this situation without spooking deer?  Do you try to hold it until you leave the woods;  do you use a sealed pee-bottle;  do you climb down and move a “safe” distance from your stand before relieving yourself;  or, do you take a quick look around before letting it go right from the stand?  Lately, questions have arisen as to whether or not the presence of our   pee in the  woods bothers deer at all.  I have even heard hunters tell of using their own urine as an attractant.   So, out of curiosity, I did a little research to find out what a sampling of the country’s leading whitetail hunters do when nature calls.  The results were surprising.   

     Michael Hanback, book author, contributing writer and whitetail-hunting columnist for Outdoor Life Magazine, has been around the block a time or two when it comes to hunting whitetails.  He has spent more than 25 years chasing whitetails throughout this country and several Canadian destinations using bows, modern firearms and muzzleloaders.  For years he relied on a pee-bottle as part of his scent control measures, feeling that a mature buck would surely spook at the first whiff of human urine.  But, after being convinced by some of the nations top deer biologists that urine is 95% water and virtually free of toxins, depending on what you have eaten, he began leaving his pee-bottle at home and “letting it fly” right from the tree a few years ago.  Since then he has harvested several trophy-sized whitetails that were not at all concerned with his urine.  Michael recently stated in his “Big Buck Zone” Q&A forum that he would not use pee to attract deer, but he has learned that the scent of it doesn’t seem to spook them either.

     Professional whitetail bowhunter, Steve Bartylla, from Marshfield, Wisconsin is quickly becoming a household name among whitetail hunters through his books, videos, and many nationally-published, deer hunting articles.  My wife and I had a nice discussion with Steve at the 2007 Deer and Turkey Expo in Columbus.  He is a wealth of deer hunting information.  When I contacted Steve for his thoughts on this subject, this is what he had to say. 

     “I’ve conducted many field experiments where I’ve urinated in mock scrapes.  I’ve even had bucks work scrapes doctored with human urine in July.  My belief is that once it breaks down, it smells similar enough to deer urine that it can be effective.  However, it takes several hours for it to get to that state and I do believe that deer realize that fresh human urine is not deer urine.”  In response to the question of whether or not fresh human urine spooks deer, Steve added this.  “I believe the answer is no…and yes.  Each deer has its own tolerance level and, over the course of its life, is trained what to fear and what not to.  I don’t believe that most deer fear human urine.  The problem that I see with urinating from stands is that the few deer that do fear it are very likely to be some of the older, more mature animals.  When that happens to be a shooter buck, and he is running the other way, does the hunter really care that most other deer aren’t afraid?”  For Steve, a pee-bottle and a steady aim is the way to go.

     Finally, the general consensus among other successful hunters, when asked whether you should climb down from your stand to relieve yourself, was a resounding no.  Most believe that the extra human scent that would be distributed around the area of your stand by climbing down, walking out, returning to the area, and then climbing the tree again would be much more of a deterrent than simply going from the tree.  As for holding it until your hunt is over, that rarely works out.  Hunting is supposed to be fun.  In my opinion, it would be better to choose any of the other options before the experience is ruined by the discomfort of a full bladder.

     To sum it up, if you want the absolute best chance to kill a deer that has been programmed to associate fresh human urine with danger, then it’s best to keep from urinating around your stands.  But, for most hunting situations, peeing from your stand shouldn’t adversely affect the outcome of your hunt.

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    Mature stands of timber provide poor habitat for white-tailed deer.  The fully crowned trees shade the understory, leaving the forest floor bereft of the quality browse and security cover that deer need.  If the timber hasn't been thinned within the last 10 years, select-cutting may be just what your hunting property needs , and you may even realize a tidy profit doing it.

     While I was working on my wildlife management degree, it seemed that every plan we put together for the purpose of managing white-tailed deer included the selective harvest of some of the properties timber.  The idea is to open the canopy of the forest  by removing mature trees that are not providing much, if anything, for the deer.  The increased sunlight boosts the growth of ground plants and saplings that deer do use for both browse and cover. 

     When it comes to deer browse, the results of select-cutting can be measured in tons.  An old-growth forest may provide no more than 30 to 50 pounds of deer food per acre.  But, at their peak, the thickets that are produced by cutting timber can grow 1,000 to 2500 pounds of deer food per acre.  Newly formed thickets , along with the brushy treetops left from cutting, also provide bedding and travel cover.  This combination of food and cover not only keeps the deer on your property, also draws them over from the neighbor's.

     Before beginning cutting, I strongly suggest that you hire a forestry consultant with knowledge of deer management to help formulate a plan for the property.  Rare is the landowner who knows every species of tree and bush, let alone which ones should be left for deer.

     Tom Claes, a certified forester with more than 30 years experience in the timber business,has consulted on many logging projects, in addition to managing a his families 250 acre tree farm located near Ohio's Mohican State Forest.

     " A forestry consultant will answer important questions for you, such as what species of trees exist on your property, the condition of your timber,and will be able to tell you what your trees are worth," said Claes.  " A consulting forester will also mark all of the timber to be sold, have several reputable logging companies bid on the timber, and then make sure that the landowner gets paid."

    After a plan is formulated and a logging bid awarded, the forester continues to oversee the harvest of the timber, making sure that all is done according to plan without damaging the forest.  Foresters may be paid by the hour, by the job, or make take a percentage of from the timber sales.  Regardless it is money well spent.

    As a rule, the larger the property is, more options a landowner will have in the way of deer management, and thus the more involved the planning can become.  But even a small parcel needs to be managed right.

    " A logging project, even on a small piece of property, is a major operation,"  said Claes.  " Although rare, I have seen properties as small as small as 15 acres that needed 50 to 75 trees removed."

    The plan for a small woods may call for the heavy cutting of a section of undesirable timber right in the center, which creates a bedding area away from the boundaries where deer might be harvested by other hunters.  This can also work well when a small woods id surrounded by crop fields.

    Discuss your future hunting plans with the forester.  Ask about setting up ambush points where deer are likely to moving during daylight hours.  He may suggest cutting a large opening close to a stand of white oaks.

    Any deer hunter worth his salt knows what can happen when you mix prime bedding habitat, deer level browse and white oak acorns in the fall.  It can be magical. 

    Consider the layout of the logging roads and log landings.  These should be configured in a way that improves access into the property and also may provide places to plant food plots with less effort.  Normally logging roads that run east and west receive more sunlight throughout the day, making them better suited for "trail" plots.  Larger woodland food plots do better on south-facing slopes.

    Logging roads are ideal for accessing deer stands, for hauling deer out, and for removing the firewood that will be left on the ground after the cut.  It's also worth mentioning that deer use these roads, too.  It's not at all uncommon to see logging roads littered with deer tracks within days of being built.  Both bucks and does use these roads year-round, and the bucks seem to concentrate rubs and scrapes along them during the rut. 

    If the property lacks a stream or a standing water source, make arrangements with the logging crew to dig a few watering holes while they have the heavy equipment out there.  Deer must have water, and small watering holes can become deer magnets, especially in dry years.  Bucks drink often during the rut, to cool themselves down while chasing does.  Placing a stand close to a watering hole may get you a shot a bruiser buck.

    Once you learn what the timber is worth, you may be tempted to sell all the most valuable.  But when cutting to improve the property for and other wildlife, monetary gain should take a backseat to quality food and cover production.  You may be able to sell a large stand of mature white oaks for a pretty penny, but at the cost of removing a preferred source for deer during the fall.  Unless oaks are aged to the point of severely limited nut production, as a general rule, you should leave them. 

    Deer love acorns, especially the sweet ones produced by white oaks.  Other oaks worth maintaining are all members of the red oak family.  Soft mast trees, such as persimmon, wild apple, crab apple, nannyberry (blackhaw), and wild plum , should also be left.  The fruits produced by these trees are highly palatable and nutritious. 

    Immature stands of eastern hemlock, Virginia pine, white pine and white cedar may offer winter browse along with protection from winter wind and heavy snow, and should also be left.

    A few important woody browse species to keep in mind are wild rose, dogwood, basswood, sumac, serviceberry and hawthorn (thornapple).  But if the lowest limbs are out of a deers reach, they are of little use and should be cut.

    The ideal compromise is to remove the trees that are least beneficial to whitetails but still have market value.  This allows you to improve the property for deer hunting while still realizing a decent profit from the timber sale.

    Many nut trees are of surprising little value to whitetails.  The new growth produced by cutting these trees will usually offer far more nutrition than would the nut crop.  A few examples of nut trees to remove include red hickory (pignut), bitternut hickory, shagbark hickory and chestnut.  But be sure to leave enough of these to maintain a good population of squirrels, as they are the "tree planters" of the native forest.  Other trees to remove are sassafrass, dosage orange (hedgeapple), elm, ash, sweet and black gum, sycamore, cottonwood, boxelder, ironwood and maples.  Some of these supply quality browse and cover when in the sapling stage, but when they mature, all are of little use to deer.

    Timber prices, like most commodities, fluctuate according to supply and demand.  A certain species of tree can become "hot" due to high demand (both here and in foreign markets). As a type of wood becomes popular for furniture, flooring, trim and cabinets, the value of the trees can climb accordingly.  Such trends are constantly changing. 

    Also keep in mind that size, straightness, presence of knots, amount and size of limbs, and the quality of the wood (veneer, board or pulp) also factors into what a particular tree is worth.  A tall, straight with a trunk diameter of 20 inches or more, without knots or low limbs, will always be worth the most, with each flaw lowering the value. A typical stand of timber will have a mix of good, average and poor quality trees.

    I can only offer the general value of trees at the time of this writing.  But consistently desirable species such as white oak, red oak, black walnut, hard maple and black cherry, usually bring from around $100 to more than $500 for a mature tree, depending on the quality.  The less desirable hardwood species, mentioned earlier, generally bring less than $100 for a mature tree.  Again, knowing these thing is how the forester earns his pay.

     Select cutting of the right trees will not only help to keep deer on your side of the fence, it will also make the property more accessible for hunting and other outdoor activities.  And the revenue from the sale of the timber can be used to cultivate and maintain food plots or even purchase a new ATV for the upcoming season.  In essence, you get paid to improve your property for hunting.

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About Me

     I was born in Shelby, Oh. in 1971 and was introduced to the outdoors at a very early age by my father.  He was an avid upland game hunter and fisherman of anything that tasted good after being breaded and deep-fried.  Time with him was limited to every other weekend due to my parents divorce when I was about five years old.  We chased rabbits with his beagles and fished farm ponds when he didn't have other obligations. 

     He moved away when I was eleven years old, which made our visits much less frequent.  He handed down his love of the outdoors and, for that, I am thankful.  With divorced parents and an unstable home life, the lakes and woods that surrounded our home became my sanctuaries.  Growing up I trapped the creeks for raccoons, muskrats and mink.  I also hunted small game and fished for anything that I could get to bite.  

     At the age of 16 a 1977 Ford LTD, purchased with $300 earned by selling furs and picking strawberries, coupled with an Ohio driver's license, became my real passport to the outdoors.  I soon began working on a large dairy farm each day after school.  The pay of $2.50 per hour was not lucrative by any standard and the work was hard, but their was a big fringe benefit.  With the job came permission to hunt its several hundred game rich acres.  I wreaked havoc on the untapped rabbit and squirrel population and used hounds to hunt raccoons at night.  But, what really intrigued me were the white-tailed deer.  Deer hunting was foreign to me.  Populations in our area were just reaching decent levels, with a bag limit of one deer of either sex during the entire season.  I saved for an entire summer to buy a new 12 gauge Model 500 pump-action combo made by Mossberg.  It came with both a ventilated rib barrel and a rifled slug barrel.  The old LTD was also upgraded to an even older four-wheel drive pick-up. 

     On those first deer hunts I nearly froze to death with temperatures in the teens, but did manage to take my first deer with the Mossberg.  I shoulder shot a young doe that was pushed down a fence-row to within 30-yards of my makeshift ground-blind by hunters on a neighboring farm.  I was hooked and borderline frostbit.

    After graduating high school, I left my job at the farm and headed off to Hocking college to pursue a degree in Wildlife Management, along with the abundant fish, deer and other game species that Southeastern Ohio is known for.  I was low B student in high school, amazing considering my total lack of interest in formal education at the time, but college was different.  I was surrounded by people who shared my passion for the outdoors.  The school work was challenging yet fun.  I completed the program, earning my degree in 1993.  I soon learned the hard reality that having a degree doesn't guarantee you a dream job in your field of study and you still have to make a living somehow. 

   The sixteen years since have been a blur.  I have been employed in the manufacturing field including maintenance, engineering, and quality assurance work.  I married my high school sweet-heart, Jodi, and we bought our home in Bellville, Ohio.   I've also been back to school many times and have completed several courses, most dealing with both mechanical and electrical engineering.  Most recently was 12 months of correspondence writing courses offered by in British Columbia, which I completed in early 2006.  The knowledge gained from these courses, along with the lessons learned over 30 years in the outdoors, have opened a new chapter in my life; The North American School of Outdoor Writing inoutdoor writing and photography. 

     I am now a member of both the OWAA (Outdoor Writers Association of America and the OWO (Outdoor Writers of Ohio).  My articles have appeared in several outdoor publications, most of which have dealt with whitetail hunting in one way or another due to my almost unhealthy obsession with them. 

     I only know of one way to consistently harvest mature whitetails, that is through hard work and a commitment to becoming a student of the white-tailed deer.  That means scouting, studying deer behavior, practicing with your equipment and by planting your butt into the seat of a treestand or groundblind for as long as it takes to get the job done, even when the weather turns bad or you don't feel good. 

     Through trial and error, I have made every deer hunting mistake at least once (most more that once).  I have learned that there are no "silver bullets" or miracle products when it comes to deer hunting, no matter what the manufacturers may claim.  Many products, when used correctly and at the appropriate times, will help you to harvest deer.  But, unfortunately, far more will only empty your wallet and waist your time.  These are the realities of modern day deer hunting.  These are the topics that I write about.  

     I also find myself writing more about wild turkey hunting nowadays, which I have discovered in the past several years is just as addictive and as challenging as deer hunting.  The two just seem go together like peanut butter and jelly. 

    I also love to catch, and eat, fish.  I try to stock our freezer with walleye, perch, and crappie fillets each season.  To me, few meals rival deep-fried yellow perch with all the trimmings (must be hereditary).

   I have no idea where my writing will lead, if anywhere.  I do know this: If people enjoy reading my articles only half as much as I enjoy writing them, writing will be a part of my life for a long, long time.

Tony Seals  

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